Ranting and...(not)loving it... T.T
Today I would like to talk about manga viewer sites and hosting. We at Forbidden Garden have a strict no hosting policy that has been active since June 16, 2010. And of course our releases have found their way onto these same reader sites. And for awhile we've overlooked them and thought that that's how it goes, and after sending emails and getting no response I went on with my life.
BUT this past week while looking around I've found these sites who are not only making money off of our group's hard work but also are removing the credits so that they can claim it as their own. And it's just wrong.
And yes, I can understand the hypocrisy of the situation - the 'rules among thieves' so to say. But I do like to think that maybe there is a small silver-lining in that we don't make money off of this and we immediately remove links of and then advertise anything that we do that becomes licensed (see Toshokan Sensou: Love & War ).
So you may be saying, "We know all of this/we've heard it before...What does this mean for us, the readers?" For today's release, nothing will change, except for that 4shared wouldn't let me upload today so I used mediafire, the pw is: pbtt BUT if this release finds it's way on to these online viewer sites then with our next release we will start to take action. At first it will be a small watermark and as each week goes by and the same people don't listen to our wishes then the "punishment" will get harsher and harsher. Until it gets to a point that only a complete idiot would go through the trouble of getting to our release to put it up on these sites.
And yes, I understand that mostly this is punishing those who haven't done anything wrong. And for that I'm sorry, and if any of you who ARE following our rules has any better ideas then I'm more than happy to hear you out.
And if you are an uploader and are currently reading this message, please I beg of you, just don't upload. Not only do I not want you to ruin everyone else's fun that comes to FG, but also I don't want to have to go through the trouble of having to enforce all of this when I could be spending that time working on chapters. Just think every time you break the rules urdzy has to spend editing time enforcing rules, so please think of urdzy.
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| What's with all the Sailor Moon pics?! Ohhhh...you shall see :) |
ZZD v03 c12 - Geeze Nukui! Desperate much?! But on the upscale...*looks around*...what's this? A glimmer of Youko's past and maybe some QUESTIONS WE'VE BEEN WAITING FOREVER for answered???!
Caramel Kiss v01 c04 - Hellloooo nurse...errr...wolf!! Yowzer! Bold indeed.
Half & Half v01 c02 - Okay, I must admit this is one of my favorite series right now. Itsuki is...Sailor Moon?!
Issho ni Neyou yo v02 c10 - Kohaku's first love~ As always go and be thankful to DDD for their amazing work.
Yasashii Te c03 v.02 - Arg. Now I want to live in a chocolate shop.
Thank you very much for ZZD!
ReplyDeleteNo more bullshit what's the password for ZZD ch12?
ReplyDeleteIt's kinda sad to see how some rude people don't seem to be able to think for themselves ... Seems like foolish uploaders aren't the only problematic readers you have. I wish you all the best of luck for dealing with all these unfortunate things.
ReplyDeleteAnyways, thank you so much for all the hard work you put into scanlating, esp. ZZD :D
Sailor Moon reminds me of my childhood xD
you should do the water mark... its just awful this is happening..
ReplyDeletesee, i don't know why your stuff is on manga reader sites since you have direct downloading and i don't believe you guys, have a 20 post till you can download policy (which i ABSOLUTELY HATE - i go on manga reader sites for those projects)
ReplyDeletebut can i ask why you stop allowing managa reading sites to upload your stuff?
Thank you for the releases!
ReplyDeleteThanks for releases, mainly ZZD.
ReplyDeleteAs for the whole hosting thing. I can appreciate your take on the no hosting policy but I don't see it as a working philosophy in this age of internet, and I personally don't support it.
(I'm not an uploader for the record.)
I would never have come across most of my favourite manga's had hosting sites not existed. I certainly would have never found your blog here or any translator blog.
While there are some hosting sites that remove credit pages and page labels, they are smaller places.
The major sites always leave in the credit pages and some display the groups on the selection pages as well. There's always 2 sides to the fence and sites that support translating groups have the bigger yard.
There are many other groups that are victim of the same things as you, and they know it, but they keep releasing.
The main (not sole) spirit of scan groups is to bring manga to the people that aren't being licensed.
(It should be noted that licensed manga are being removed from a lot of the sites, which I agree is completely fair.)
You are now suggesting that you lower the quality of the release to your dedicated readers to try and obstruct uploaders. Uploaders will upload, the only people gaining no benefit are the readers of your work.
Is there really any point to continuing if everyone is going to lose? Keep in mind that while there are scumbags there are also fans that appreciate what you do.
What it comes down to is do you want to bring a quality release to those that appreciate and enjoy it or bum up a release to spite scumbag hosts that probably don't even read it.
This is just my take as a reader. I have never been involved in a trans group so I have no experience on the inner workings or ideals.
I'll leave on a positive note by once again thanking your for the releases.
Good work with the password on ZZD12!
ReplyDeleteNow that I can't access it here, I - and many others - will have to go to an online reader site like Mangafox to read it. Password or not, somebody will have uploaded it ;)
Dumb is as dumb does.
Thanks for all the hard work.
ReplyDeleteI'm guessing the reason they don't want their work on mangareading sites is because of the now stricter copyright laws.
The password is in the text. Atleast try to make an effort.
Yes, dumb is as dumb does indeed...=_____=
ReplyDeleteAnd the anon right in front of me is right - there's even a link in the post about our reasons. :)
@Emily - yeah I hate post requirements as well...more work for me less time to scanlate...=p
Thank you everyone for your encouragement! And for reading the post! ^^
thanks a lot for the releases :) and all your hard work!
ReplyDeletehope things get better >_<
I actually have to agree with the first anon, I think the watermark is a good idea, but it's true it gets a bit more time to put it every scan -_-
to all the people who don't know the password...
ReplyDeleteyou don't deserve to read the manga.
I think you guys should do whatever is necessary. It's not that hard to actually read through your posts (which I enjoy reading anyway- it's heartening to know that there are fellow married otaku with lives outside the fandom that are still passionate about shoujo/josei =D). Thank you for all your hard work in bringing us these series, especially for ZZD, Issho ni Neyou yo (my current fave), and Half and Half. I hope you continue to do what you do, however you choose to bring it to us grateful leechers (even if you move to IRC like so many other groups do). Gambare!
ReplyDeletehello thank you for the wonderful releases..
ReplyDeletecan i ask if there is another password for half and half? it doesnt work..
sorry for the latter post. jejeje
ReplyDeletemy stupid keybord dont work.. sorry..
-ok i am slow and ill admit it
ReplyDelete-but i think that when readers actually make efforts to side with the scanalators in accessing the manga through downloads instead of hosts and then get sidetracked by a password pray for a host
this is my first time in trying to get a direct download and bc im new i dont deserve to read the manga. NONSENSE!!
-on the note of stealers i am for your cause, but i would take the radical route first then go to the watermark so they can lose hope
I totally support watermarks and passwords, or whatever it takes to protect the fruits of your hard work and labor as much as you can. I don't view it as "punishment" at all, and considering what's been going on you have every right to take precautionary measures.(Seriously, removing credit pages? That's just beyond rude and bordering on unethical.)
ReplyDeleteThanks for the releases! Issho ni neyou yo is such a lovely project! >.<
ReplyDeleteI think that unfortunately, there's not much you can do to prevent your projects from being uploaded on online readers. The only solution would be to stop scanlating completely or make your releases super private (but that defeats the purpose of scanlation). So the only thing you can do is probably keep your releases as accessible as possible. And if it's not too much of a bother, you could try putting watermarks on your scans. But if I were you, I wouldn't lose my time with such things. It must be really frustrating but most readers probably download your projects from your blog anyway (or read them on Mangafox, which at least doesn't remove credits).
In my opinion, whoever had to pay to get these release are the true idiots...XD
ReplyDeleteThank you guys for Half and Half.
ReplyDeleteNow on to other things: I usually download manga from mangatraders. It's pretty convenient and i get to know new series from it (They give full credit to Scanlators and don't remove anything at all). Following said heartless download i do a quick search trough Mangaupdates and go to the manga page on the site that has links, comments and the scanlators website and everything u could hope for. I usually go to the teams site and post in the comments how grateful i am for providing me (and many others) said interesting manga (Half and Half in my case) so, even if i didn't initially download from their website everythings ok (or so I believe. If I'm wrong please explain to me why). I'm not saying what you guys are or will do in the future is wrong if it gets you the proper attention and credit; im just explaining what happens in my case.
I'm not from an english speaking country (sry for any mistakes) and i watched sailor moon when i was 4 or 5 years old and even with a wikipedia search i got nothing soo... yeah.
@ Anonymous
April 11, 2011 1:31 AM
U sir are an idiot.
So my post was deleted?
ReplyDeleteNice way to let people speak up.
Keep at it!
I haven't deleted anybody's post...
ReplyDeleteTo all the people complaining about/asking for the password...
ReplyDeleteDid you even bother reading the post? The password is IN THERE. :/
Anyway, thanks so much for Issho ni Neyou yo!
^darn whyd you tell them
ReplyDeleteReaders JUST DON'T GET IT. There are numerous reasons in which why scan groups do not want their work to be hosted! It's not just for themselves but for the readers sake as well. One reason would be is that the smartest thing to do is stay out of the vision of publishers. When hosting sites just grab all the manga they can and starting hosting it, you might as well be wearing a hot pink tutu to a battlefield.
ReplyDeleteWhen scanlators don't want their translations and such to be hosted people immediately go on the defensive by saying scanlation itself is illegal as well. Might as well shut your bitch mouth up because WITHOUT SCANLATORS YOU GOT NOTHING TO READ. Yes it's OBVIOUS that scanlating is in fact illegal but that is why there are RULES in scanlation! There are the obvious ones like 'don't pick up a licensed series' though some scan groups do it, idiots... and then there's the 'no profit' rule.
Most readers are IGNORANT about this but there are hosting sites that are out there for the money, the most popular one being the biggest one: Mangafox. Readers continue to support mangafox without even knowing their true motives. MF is owned by a company who uses the illegal activities of scanlations to do more illegal activities to benefit themselves. Most scan groups oppose MF and demand their work gets taken off, most of the time it works, but there were times where it did not. Like the problem with mangastream. Mangastream hosts their own work and asked kindly that nobody else hosts it, when they found MF hosting their chapters of their popular series, they politely asked for it to be taken down, the volunteer staff quickly put themselves to work and put down the chapters but soon the chapters were back up on MF. When questioned about this, it turned out that the owners of MF were actually putting it back up on their site, LITERALLY saying that if they didn't have those chapters up they would lose readers and ultimately make less money. And no, they probably make enough money that not everything they make goes into maintaining their website.
Oh, for those who don't know, they make money off of advertisements. Each click equals change in their pockets.
Also, there is that new 'otakushop' piece of shit they made. When questioned about it, they changed topics and dodged questions, suspicious don't you think? And then they literally said 'yes what we are doing is illegal, but we just want to advertise, is that so wrong?'
A real facepalm to MF.
So yes, what scanlators do is illegal but scanlators only do this for the readers and scanlators are always on the publishers side and scanlators will ALWAYS drop a series if asked.
Is what FG doing reasonable? Yes.
Are the owners of MF douche bags? Yes.
Enough ranting. Have a nice day.
Wow, that password was hard to find. I read all the text twice, checked the comments to make sure the password was actually in there, then began reading a third time before I actually found it.
ReplyDeleteAs a result, I feel sad because uploaders are fuckin' shit up for me. Online readers are really trash anyway, and if I want releases ASAP the best way is usually to come directly to the source. Like the uploaders do. Because even the uploaders know downloading is fun, easy, and vastly superior.
Anyway, password really hid in there, since I usually skip over things that look like nonsense, assuming them to be typos. It's an internet coping strategy.
YAY! thank you =DDD i love zig zag don so much!! i appreciate your hard work <3 thanks for working hard again :)
ReplyDeleteQuestions of security aside, "Zig Zag Don" is a terrific manga, and so I found myself willing to go to some effort for it. I'd like to point out, though, that I would never have seen it without those upload sites.
ReplyDeleteAs a man, I was about to get totally befuddled why the hero girl was putting herself in danger with the creepy guy. I was relieved about 5 pages into chapter 12.
You can learn a lot from manga. This is one of those cases. Thanks!
found the password, but can't get it to work with the half and half downloads. i read the whole post (and yes, i understand why you're doing this), but unless there's some extra secret code i need to crack, or it's short for something, i don't think it works.
ReplyDelete@Anonymous I just tried the password on this Half and Half chapter and it worked fine. For the others you have to read the post for that chapter. Or if you don't want to do that you can use our online reader. Hope that helps!
ReplyDeleteI'm having the same trouble as everyone else with the password for Half and Half. It just won't work. That is, unless there's some trick to the password and it isn't the four random letters that I think it is.
ReplyDeleteThank you!
ReplyDeletewhere is the pasaword for half& half?
ReplyDeleteThe password is: pbtt
ReplyDeletecool password that does not work... f#>& this all... i had enough... it's better to drop this...
ReplyDeleteI've tried that four letters password several times but it didn't work, at least for 2 latest releases. Could you please check it?
ReplyDeleteIt did work for earlier releases, but not now.